love
Posted by: queenie
8th Dec 2009 11:50pm
when will we stop using animals as guinie pigs except when its compleatly necessary and then who has the right to play god and decide the future of some defenceless animal queenie52
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Comments 29
Rocky
My Daughter has a wonderful little dog that does the most amazing things its the love of our life her name is Abby she swims rides a surf board and has so much love to give . your right they should not play god with any animal.
simla
Hi Queenie52... this is a difficult discussion, one that has kept Philosophers arguing for and against for decades. It is in the relm of 'the greater good', which as said previously, depends on your interpretation of 'necessary'. I'm hopeful that legislation has made conditions and subsequent treatment of lab animals, better in recent years. As it is kept behind closed doors, it's anyone's guess. Thanks for starting this most contraversal discussion...Simla
simla
Yes. Thats right, these forums help a lot. Keep up the good work Hartmut. cheers, Simla.
Hartmut
You are right. One of the best ways to change anything is indeed to get into an influencial position to brake down the constrains of the times. However since that is not possible for most people, another way is to enlighten / inform people in any way possible about the plight of animals, or anything else that needs urgent changes.
simla
Of course you're right Hartmut, humans do not have the 'right' to kill animals. However that dosn't stop it from happening. This is a HUGE issue, and it is not going to go away just by thinking it away(in the short term anyway-my view) The best way to make a change to a situation such as this is from the inside, get into a position of influence(infiltration).Take the case of eminent veterinarian DR John Murray,prominent greyhound vet, who together with Dr Harry (TV) and others, established the Greyhound Rehoming program. They are instrumental in saving the lives of many beautiful dogs. This is an example of what CAN be done if you are passionate enough. One has to work within the constraints of the times we live in, and exert INFLUENCE in a possitive manner-one step at a time.My advice if you want to help animals and or humans- avoid direct confrontation,get into an INFLUENTIAL position -then watch things CHANGE! Simla
Hartmut
It is not a question of how to kill animals more 'humanely',
but "Why do we humans assume that we have a 'right' to kill animals for medical tests or other nefarious reasons, like cosmetics.?"
Hartmut
We will only stop using animals as test-guinea pigs (without exceptions!) when we realise that all living creatures have an equal right to life - and that no one has a "right" to kill for test purposes that could improve or safe human life.
One (animal species, like us humans!) is not better than an other, only a different manifestation of that force/energy which is popularly known as God.
I say, If we want to improve OUR lives, then we should test new medicines etc. on OURSELVES!
simla
Hi Hartmut, yes, in an ideal world we wouldn't need to use animals at all for our own purposes. That time is coming closer as we develop new technologies. The thing is some medicines and potential trial drugs are being used on human 'guinea pigs' Some prisoners are offered a reduced sentence if they agree to certain testing of drugs. I also know of a personal friend who was in pallitive care, not expected to live, with Hodgkins Lymphoma,(cancer of the lymph nodes) An invitation to trial an unknown drug was offered, which she accepted, and that was 12 years ago. She's had a couple of tumors of another type removed, but that new drug appears to have worked on the really lethal one. So some progress is being made...Cheers ,Simla
amar93
it all depends on your interpretation of ''necessary''
kaz
It's so sad. Every animal and insect has its reason for being here. All to do with mother nature. Shouldn't we adapt to living with them, not destroy them or injure them.
woosif
Ooh hard one, firstly if we had humans for trials then we wouldnt need animals BUT as we dont we have to try some drugs which can save thousands of peoples lives somehow - I know its a shame but do you know of any humans who want to be tested on? if you have travelled through india and africa and seen the humanity there you would understand more, my friend says this all the time but has only been to fiji and qld so understanding why its done would open so many peoples eyes as to why we use animals for testing for medial purposes, personally if for cosmetic purposes I think thats diabolical WE DONT need anymore cosmetics
butterfly
This reply is for all of you, well I do not eat meat, and I have 2 great pets. Why not test new things on criminals (USA) in exchange for not sending them to the death cells. Animals deserve to live more than they do, animals do not take life; if your so fond of experiments then why not have them done on your selves. I also only eat free range eggs, those poor hens live a life of hell, hey why don't some of you live that way for a week.
Hartmut
Some good points, but some animals do kill, not for food but, like us,
for other reasons. There is a documentary where it shows a male chimp killing a baby chimp.
PukPuk
There will always be the use of animals for the purposes of humans for just causes. The question really is, who has the power of correct judgement as to what is a just cause.
krusty
Why dont you voolunteer to have the tests done to you instead?
Hartmut
Bravo!
Hartmut
Hm, and who might you be, to assume that you have a right to kill a little mouse?
By that erroneous assumption, a Vastly Superior alien race would have the right to kill an inferior human.
Analog6
Not to the mouse!
rachel44444
lolmyeah take one for your furry friends... unfortuntately this is how world works if they didnt test certin things on animals humans will be the ones risking their lives its a more humane way rather a little mouse be sacrificed than someones mother father brother sister u know... isee were your coming from but there isnt a way to stop it
melb_terror
queenie, do i need to point out that the idea of using animals as test subjects is so ingrained in our culture that even a person like yourself refers to a test subject as a GUINIE PIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i would also like to ask you what circumstance would constitute it being completly necessary? who gets to make that choice? and of course who says the testing being done now isn't necessary? your question invalidates itself, think about it!
queenie
perfectly healthy animals should not be used for sicence do we cut up a perfectly healthy person no when they die yes if their organ doners so do the same with animals dont use our perfectly healthy pets for science find another way its just cruelty to defensless animals
Yqsymnx
Are you a vegetarian? Do you eat meat?
If yes, then this question is moot for your purposes.
If no, then apparently the answer is that God made us superior to the rest of the animal kingdom and hence the size of our brains has allowed us to exploit this superiority to the best of our advantage, even if it's at the cost of the animal's well being.
Hartmut
You complain about spelling mistakes?
Gee, I never met a 'perfect' human like you before!
Congratulation for having achieved that wondrous goal.
Hartmut
God has nothing to do with our human caused stupidities.
And God has not made us 'Superior" to any other living thing.
Do not believe what 'man-made' religions proclaims as "truth".
They put a lot of silly stuff in their books or teaching - to exploit and control humans (women!) and animals for their own selfish purposes.
Hartmut
Evie on these forums we are polite to each other, if you want to insult people with comments like 'learn to spell' go onto YOUTUBE.
Evie
Apparently being a vegetarian makes you loose all sense of grammar. Go eat a steak and learn to spell.
woosif
Oh dear queenie - you have to get out a bit more love.... nice that you care but really millions of children die every year if you have kids then surely you like it that they have their small pox, yellow fever innoculations! in africa the children still die of strains of it, without testing it thousands more will die each year! you need to think of the whole picutre... you eat meat but want kids to die um!
rachel44444
vegitarians prove u dont need meat to survive pff if u couldnt live without eating meat we vegos wouldnt be alive
queenie
no im not vegetarian i love meat but i do hate that an animal had to die for us to eat meat but everyone knows except vegitarians that we have to survive and that if we eat meat then sacrifice of an animal has to be im talking about animals that are killed for science reasons only we dont have the right to kill these such as monkeys whales dolphins ect