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P plate laws

As a P2 plate holder I find that the laws put upon young drivers is ridiculous. First the cost of license fees is astronomical as well as insurance. I own a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer - which I paid for myself and have had it for about a year. I have a 3 year no accident or fine report and GIO wanted to charge me $6000. I shopped around to find that NRMA gave it too me for $1500 which is still quite high compared to my dad which only pays $600 for an even more expensive car. Furthermore the RTA has charged me nearly $500 in license fees and tests in the last 3 years which is a joke and also put 4 dermerit points for a 10km/h speeding fine which I see full license drivers breaking the speed limit everyday.
To me everything to do with the P plate laws is a joke and should be stopped.

Last reply: 30th Jan 2014 / 39 replies / Post by cmayfield91

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lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 23rd Feb 2010

lpullman says: Yeah, well I did got my license in the days where you sat a written test then went for and practical exam some time later. Experience depended on the examiner: I got marked down for a heel and toe change and a mate, who did his in the country, didn't even get in the car - the copper examining him asked his uncle if he could drive and that was that!

I think it's all a bit silly. Especially the insurance. I'm paying a little over $500 for full comp on a BMW 528i through the RAA. I suggest you join you local automobile association and get your insurance through them. Screw the insurance companies: buggers wanted $2,000 to insure a Falcon wagon, RAA charged me $600 for a better policy.

Registration is a joke: nearly $800 for Bimmer for 12 months. That's a 15% hike since last year and all on the compulsory third party insurance. I'm not looking forward to renewing a 10 year license in a couple of years...

Don't get me started on the backdoor taxation that is speeding fines.

P-Plate laws are a joke. Please don't take offence, but here in SA you basically buy a license. Pay the fee and get signed off for the requisite time behind the wheel and the license is yours. Driver training it isn't.

Dunno what the situation in other states is, but here we do have a proper driver training system, but only for motorcycles. Costs about $500 to get you Ps now, I think . I did mine when it was new and they charged me $80.

Between all the above and petrol excise - wasn't that supposed to disappear when the GST came in? - the state governments make a nice packet out of motorists. Reply

Dogs

Posted by: Dogs
Posted: 13th Apr 2010

Dogs says: In our (Australian) society, which isn't quite perfect, laws and regulations are there for the guidance of idiots and the ignorant. As we mature and become more experienced with the help of these laws and regs we become better in what we do. All of our Society then benefits. End of story ;) Reply

Rass

Posted by: Rass
Posted: 17th Nov 2010

Dogs says: In our (Australian) society, which isn't quite perfect, laws and regulations are there for the guidance of idiots and the ignorant. As we mature and become more experienced with the help of these...

Rass says: Don't be silly, Dogs.........
Laws for the guidance of idiots and the ignorant should never be applied to the average, let alone the above average.
These laws are all about control, taxes and the ignorance of idiot politicians. Reply

Dogs

Posted by: Dogs
Posted: 17th Nov 2010

Rass says: Don't be silly, Dogs.........
Laws for the guidance of idiots and the ignorant should never be applied to the average, let alone the above average.
These laws are all about control, taxes...

Dogs says: Ah Rass......in society ALL laws must apply to ALL, even if some believe they are above average in their abilities and level of responsibility. Society does have to have levels of responsibility for all to observe otherwise you will have anarchy and we would have a neighbourhood prison in every suburb !! Maximum legal speed limits are simply ONE example of laws for all that are there to protect the innocent and ignorant from hurt and harm. It really, really isn't just about revenue raising or the ignorance of the politicians that are voted into government by you and I. Let's stop using the Conspiracy Concept as an excuse to exist outside the useful guidlines of our society and instead think of the welfare of neighbours and respect them more. Reply

paradox

Posted by: paradox
Posted: 13th Nov 2011

Rass says: Don't be silly, Dogs.........
Laws for the guidance of idiots and the ignorant should never be applied to the average, let alone the above average.
These laws are all about control, taxes...

paradox says: Sorry to but into your conversation Rass, but how do you separate young and ignorant idiots. After nearly 50 years of driving accident free I was smacked in the back by a P plater and he asked me quite seriously why I had stopped for the red light even though I would have made it across as there was no cop around????? As a result of this my premiums have gone through the roof and I am battling his insurance company for all the costs incurred. So please wise up and drive safely and you will reduce your premiums in time. Reply

Don

Posted by: Don
Posted: 14th Apr 2010

Don says: This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Reply

LUV-A-TIGER

Posted by: LUV-A-TIGER
Posted: 21st Apr 2010

LUV-A-TIGER says: Yes..I so much agree with this cost, it is also depending on the cost of your car how old it is and how much you have purchase it and how much you would like to insure it to the value that is where the cost is going and on your age bracket and also if you had any fines and accidents you had in years..
To be honest it has all come down to the government, majority goes to them as part of there so called "wages"..It is just not only the so called hoons fault with their reckless driving.. Reply

ted

Posted by: ted
Posted: 23rd Apr 2010

ted says: If you didn't have these laws we would have a lot more road deaths from the new drivers. When you pass your test it only means that you have a basic knowledge of how to drive and the road laws. It takes a long time to learn how to drive properly. e.g. How to handle a car in a skid, Reading the road ahead and being able to work out waht other drivers are going to do. Lot's of people think that by passing there test they can drive a car. They are wrong, all it means is thgat they know how to steer and do the basics but in an emergency they haven't got the skill to help themselves Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 28th Apr 2010

lpullman says: Hmm, I see more than a few of the usual suspects have missed the OPs point.

I see one condescending laws-are-there-for-reason, two of the usual unsubstantiated assertions and one blame the current media bandwagon scapegoat.

OK some facts, so pin 'em back:

Insurance premiums have nothing to do with anything but the claim rates and values. Thus we get strange edge affects like: most young drivers cannot afford more than third party and maybe theft and have such huge excess that they will avoid making a claim like the plague. But those rich enough to afford full coverage are also more likely make a claim, so premiums are high because, while the total number of claims is low, their value is high. Lesson - if you don't have a full no claim bonus, don't own a nice car.

Road deaths are trending down in the medium term. The population is rising. Laws are static in the medium term. Therefore, there is little or no correlation between road laws and changes in the accident rate.

The "hoon driving problem" is a non-issue. It's been around as long as cars. Charging road users through the nose will NOT change this.

Contrary to what appears to be popular opinion around here, one does not get to be a "good" driver just by serving time. Most people manage to go through several decades of driving learning nothing except bad habits. Give me someone who's just passed their test, has little experience but cares about their driving any day. If someone is going to learn how to react in a panic situation, they'll do it when they are young and inexperienced. Not when they have been driving for years and think they are safe. Having said that, if I see P-plates on a comodore, I expect trouble.

How many of the "experienced" crowd here are confident they can deal with a front-end lose (had one the other night thanks to some half-with dumping oil on a roundabout), panic braking or avoiding an obstacle at speed? Anyone putting their hand up in this thread I'll call an over confident idiot. Reply

uruz

Posted by: uruz
Posted: 22nd Jun 2011

lpullman says: Hmm, I see more than a few of the usual suspects have missed the OPs point.

I see one condescending laws-are-there-for-reason, two of the usual unsubstantiated assertions and one blame the...

uruz says: Ipullman, I don't know how old you are or how long you've been driving, nor what experience you have but I believe you have a very wise head on your shoulders. I've been driving in all states of Australia and also overseas for 52 years and I've studied defensive driving techniques etc and still do not believe I am a great driver, just a cautious one.
I fully agree with your comments. Reply

paradox

Posted by: paradox
Posted: 17th Nov 2011

lpullman says: Hmm, I see more than a few of the usual suspects have missed the OPs point.

I see one condescending laws-are-there-for-reason, two of the usual unsubstantiated assertions and one blame the...

paradox says: Hi Ipullman, did you know that even if you are not at fault, i.e. get smacked in the back you still get 25% of fault awarded to you? Now in my case my fine old car wasn't worth much, but the brilliant P plater was driving Alfa Romeo and my 25% of the bill for just being on the road was more than my car was worth. Talk about
rip-offs when you buy insurance. I am very careful with the fine prints and ask for written answers to my questions before I commit myself.
Regarding front-end looses, you should try having one with a caravan in tow. Reply

mermaid

Posted by: mermaid
Posted: 29th Apr 2010

mermaid says: Putting costs aside, the reality of a learner or p plate driver is 'inexperience'. In my day learning to drive was not for the feint hearted, driving lessons were on one way mountain winding roads in all weather conditions in an 60's heavy metalled tank nothing like the light weight vehicles of today!

Since then I'm at a loss why the government has not legislated a defence driving course as part of every states licence testing programme.
This effective and practical learning experience will be the success to saving lives on our roads.

On the topic of careless young drivers attitudes to speed, the recent Channel 9 story viewing school students attending hospitals is an excellent way to plant the seed into young minds to think before you skylark, drink, speed or take drugs while behind the wheel.

Am wondering why the government have not enforced a defence driving course as part of every states licence testing programme.
This effective and practical learning experience will be the success to saving lives on our roads.

Remember to look, listen and learn from experienced oldies and stay safe on next your journey! Reply

alfielee

Posted by: alfielee
Posted: 29th Apr 2010

alfielee says: The problem for you young fellow is that the majority of accidents are made by younger drivers & so insurance brokers categorise you as high risk whereas older drivers are not. There is some proof behind their unfairness that supports their choice. Most car deaths are younger drivers & often include young friends as well. As you progress along the experience path the costs will begin to drop as the insurance companies see you as a more reliable road user.

I'm not saying you're not a good driver, many young kids are but so many are not & older drivers do tend to avoid dangerous incidents. Having said that I don't believe an 80 year old can react quickly enough to avoid a dangerous situation. I'm not 80 btw. Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 14th Jul 2010

alfielee says: The problem for you young fellow is that the majority of accidents are made by younger drivers & so insurance brokers categorise you as high risk whereas older drivers are not. There is some proof...

lpullman says: Agreed: the problem is that insurance costs are based purely on your demographic data. Whether you are a "good" driver or a "hoon" has nothing to do with it. Having said that, insuring a Ford Falcon wagon I got a range of quotes from $2,500 to $480 for full comp. Strangley enough the lowest premium got me the best policy and service.

The fact is that young people do more miles, with more people in the car and are more inclined to take risks. Always has been, always will be. All the legislation in the world cannot change this. It's part of being young.

The older driver on the other hand generally drives a less sporty car, fewer miles and is less inclined to take risks. What you also have is a history.

None of which addresses the registration question: why is 90% of the cost of registering my car insurance? With none of the trade-offs discussed above.

Oh, and regarding the 80 year old I've got two names for you: Jack Brabham and Jackie Stewart. Both still going fast on the far side of 80 ;-) Reply

cattees

Posted by: cattees
Posted: 30th Apr 2010

cattees says: I agree. At the end of the day all these new rules and regulations will not stop the road toll and neither will the revenue raising speed cameras. They should however restrict new drivers to a certain horsepower rating and also incorporate advanced driving courses. I reckon all the theory in the world doesn't help when your skidding sideways down the road with a semi bearing down on ya. I'm 46 and only last year got my open bike license. Up until this time I had mostly been riding chook chasers (dirt bikes) but now I can legally ride a large super bike which is capable of 300K on which I have little experience. I think having all that power with limited experience is a dangerous combination. Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 14th Jul 2010

cattees says: I agree. At the end of the day all these new rules and regulations will not stop the road toll and neither will the revenue raising speed cameras. They should however restrict new drivers to a...

lpullman says: Congrats on the bike license - I've been riding for nearly 20 years. big bikes, small bikes, extremely silly bikes: it's all been good fun.

The problem is that you have to takle something with limited exerience in order to gain experience. If you are skidding down the road with nothing but a head full of theory, at least you've got a idea of what to do: most drivers don't even have that.

Personally I think riding a bike for a year should be a precursor to getting a car license. Learn the road rules and some road craft BEFORE we turn you loose with something that can kill other than yourself :-) Reply

erogenius

Posted by: erogenius
Posted: 1st May 2010

erogenius says: How can you compare your insurance costs to those of your father.His premium reflects his driving experience, not just the car value.Your high premium reflects your driving experience, which is very little so far.You are a high risk to the insurance company as you have proved by all ready accruing demerit points for speeding.The attitude you have that you see others speeding so that makes it all right only strengthens their case against P plate drivers.
Nevertheless I do think that they should reduce restrictions on P plate drivers, but just make the license far more difficult to obtain in the first place.Only allow professional instruction and increase the difficulty of the test.That way we dont have a bunch of inexperienced drivers trained by their mums and dads cruising the streets taking other peoples lives into their hands. Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 17th Oct 2010

erogenius says: How can you compare your insurance costs to those of your father.His premium reflects his driving experience, not just the car value.Your high premium reflects your driving experience, which is...

lpullman says: No. Your father's premium is determined by the accident rate of his demographic. Nothing what so ever to do with his experience. What you wrote indicates that you've bought the insurance company marketing.

Your second paragraph I agree with completely, except the overly emotive last sentence

Reply

david

Posted by: david
Posted: 3rd May 2010

david says: your right the fees are out of handmore revenue for the government,you did the right thing checking on other insurance companies.you are possibly quite a good driver.but some of your peers are not.thats why insurance is high.as for your 10 km over,you did deserve the infringement.then again you were proberly unlucky to get caught.i have seen many people speeding well over the limit and never get caught.stick to the speed limit as you will have no problems.david Reply

Alfred

Posted by: Alfred
Posted: 6th May 2010

Alfred says: yeah i totally agree wth you there ..... its a joke!
a lot of young ppl give p platers a bad reputation, and it ruins it for everyone Reply

Wanderin Jack

Posted by: Wanderin Jack
Posted: 8th May 2010

Wanderin Jack says: This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Reply

Lani6

Posted by: Lani6
Posted: 10th May 2010

Lani6 says: it is harsh that we have to pay so much, especially since most young people aren't earning a lot of money if they're studying... Reply

Vasco

Posted by: Vasco
Posted: 11th Jul 2010

Vasco says: Hey the costs are high and yes it can be a huge burden especially if a young people are trying to support themselves. No easy answer - sorry.

We have one green P plater and one L plater in our family and hope they both achieve enough experience to live to ripe old ages though the P plater has already had one bad accident (100% the other driver's fault). Tragically they both know friends through the school / uni networks that have been killed in vehicle accidents with P plate drivers.

Strongly agree with the suggestion that advanced / defensive driving courses should be made mandatory for all new drivers and for existing drivers at regular intervals (5-7years?)

If you want to learn to be a safer car driver... ride a motor bike for a while. To survive unscathed you have to learn advanced skills about reading traffic conditions, being aware of everything that is happening around you. Even a minor bingle on a motorbike will hurt Reply

ice cold

Posted by: ice cold
Posted: 3rd Aug 2010

ice cold says: i think the fee's are fair, in fact i think they should be harder for p plate drivers to drive anything over a 3 cylinder car, the reason i feel this way is a p plate driver ran through a red light and hit my son. Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 17th Oct 2010

ice cold says: i think the fee's are fair, in fact i think they should be harder for p plate drivers to drive anything over a 3 cylinder car, the reason i feel this way is a p plate driver ran through a red light...

lpullman says: Sorry about your son but I'm going to have to give you a kicking: one P-plater is hit's your son and you want to fry all of them? Very rational. Exactly how would driving a triple have prevented this twit from going through a red light?

A mate of mine was killed by someone pulling out onto a country road without looking. Do I want to penalise everyone with a full license? Another nearly lost his job as a truck driver 'cause he hit a tree across the road (accident investigation saved his livelihood on that one) so we should ban trees? A third was knocked off his motorbike by a moron who forgot he had a trailer - quite seriously, that's what he wrote in his police statement - ban trailers! And morons.

Please go back to watching A Current Affair and leave this discussion to the grownups.
Reply

blondie72

Posted by: blondie72
Posted: 6th Aug 2010

blondie72 says: There is always public transport if you can't afford a car and the expenses that come with it. We can all whinge about the cost of things but it gets us nowhere. Reply

Benny

Posted by: Benny
Posted: 10th Nov 2010

Benny says: i get my open license in a few days. having been on my P's i did some dumb stuff and got put on a good behavior period for a year. fair enough i deserved it.

although, whilst in the last month of the probation period, i was pulled over for an incorrect u-turn at a median strip. as a P-plater some rules aren't explained to you whilst learning, most rules are found in the Road-code. Police use another road code (toerums) which is far larger and more in-depth than the standard. having only 4 points for 3 years is completely ridiculous. it makes too many P-platers lose their licenses for some really dumb stuff (ie 2 points cos your p-plate fell off). have that happen twice and BOOM, license gone. some kids think it's funny to pull of the magnet ones.... but explain that to a cop and .... nothing

how can a p-plater gain the necessary experience when they are banned from driving. only to be let back on after 3 months/1year after being off the pedals. ridiculous.

some serious revision is needed. i am still fighting the u-turn charge in court. 3 hearings to go... and they wonder why the justice system is clogged. Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 8th Dec 2010

Benny says: i get my open license in a few days. having been on my P's i did some dumb stuff and got put on a good behavior period for a year. fair enough i deserved it.

although, whilst in the last...

lpullman says: I assume you did a log book training method. Talking to people who've recently got their licenses it does seem that there is very little atempt to actually teach the road rules. When I did mine there was a written exam for your Ls which was based on the road rule and they sold a book to study from.

I do think it's more than a bit unfair to teach someone one set of rules and then enforce another, larger set. The real fun comes when you travel from one state to another: we're pretty relaxed about U-turns in SA, but in Melbourne...

Your P-plate problem reminds me of the fight I had with the Adelaide City Council over pay-and-display parking. I got a fine for no ticket displayed on my bike, rang them up and told them I did buy a ticket and someone must have pinched it. Got nasty until I threatened legal action on the grounds that their system is unenforcable for any vehicle without doors and a roof. I know I'm not the only one and shortly after an stack of bike parks started appearing around the ACC area. Doesn't help a lot of convertible drivers but... Reply

Anonymous

Posted by: Anonymous
Posted: 30th Nov 2010

says: Having older kids who are on P plates now I do agree that the licence costs and the insurance costs are exorbitant however there is a reason behind the high insurance premiums - its been shown time and time again that they are in a high risk category - due to inexperience and the bravado that that age always seem to have (I know I thought of myself as bullet proof at 18). As for the 10km speeding fine - cop it sweet - just cause others are doing it doesn't make it right and in case you had missed the ads - 5km can be the difference between life and death in an emergency situation. The speed limits are there to protect all of us and I am guessing you wouldn't be so cocky if you had accidently run over someone's child because you were speeding and unable to stop in time. Basically if you don't speed - you won't get fined - simple. As for the new restrictions on P Plate drivers - some are a bit over the top but I still think the best thing they could do is restrict the size of engine ie 4 cyl vs 6 or 8 cyl until a full licence has been held for at least two years. The laws are there to protect you and everyone else around you - not there just to annoy you Reply

lpullman

Posted by: lpullman
Posted: 8th Dec 2010

lpullman says: This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Reply

nick12

Posted by: nick12
Posted: 11th Mar 2011

nick12 says: i agree totally with you my friend it is ridiculous Reply

Anonymous

Posted by: Anonymous
Posted: 16th Apr 2011

says: I think that the crap you have to go to to get a licence is overkill the old way worked you lear'nt how to drive you lear'nt the road rules and got tested on both being a good driver comes with practice granted but having more serious penalties for doing the wrong thing is good makes young people think can i afford $1000 to get my car back when it is impounded and if I lose any more points I wont have a licence after being caught speeding once. i think the rest is overkill and makes it too difficult for young drivers to obtain a licence due to the amount of time it take to get one even if you are an excellent driver. Reply

matticooper

Posted by: matticooper
Posted: 23rd Apr 2011

matticooper says: It's an interesting point that the OP makes in terms of licensing and the price of being on the road. Compared to when I got my licence (and then learnt how to drive once I got my 1 year of P Plates!) compared to now, costs have sky-rocketed. I think it was something like $80 for 5 years of licence. Now it seems it's $80 for 1 year.
I wasn't lucky enough to have my own car, despite working as a teenager. I had to beg/borrow/plead with Mum and Dad for their car and luckily, their insurance allowed me to be an additional driver with not much extra cost.
When I did get my own car, I was on a full licence (but still under 25), but with a car older than myself at the time, bomb insurance (3rd party) was all that was needed.
I feel for you and others in your situation. It's no-one's fault that costs have sky-rocketed. It's opportunism at it's finest, trying to get as much money from anyone and everyone (imho).
With regards to your costs for insurance and licensing, I think you are looking at this in the wrong light. While you think "why me", it's because they are factoring in for inexperience on the road. Sure, you've done your 100 or 150 hours log book driving, you've done your tests, but how many of under 25's have done advanced driving, or taken their car to a skid pan to learn about getting out of certain situations. How many? Not many! 3 year no accident report? I'm sure there's some around here who could say 23 years and does it get them cheaper insurance? More than likely not.
Good luck with the remainder of your driving. Reply

Doc

Posted by: Doc
Posted: 16th Jun 2011

Doc says: Unfortunately because of the few idiot young drivers that continually attract the attention of the police & media, the rest of you sensible & responsible drivers have to suffer under the current system.
This system really needs to be revued & updated. Reply

MandMm

Posted by: MandMm
Posted: 4th Jul 2011

MandMm says: Not sure what laws you are referring to specifically, but generally the laws are quite similar to the ones that are put onto every single other driver. Don't speed, and you won't break the law. Follow the rules, and you won't get fined.
I do agree with you that the fees for licensing are very expensive- especially when the money we pay to use the roads is not used properly to keep the roads in safe condition in some circumstances. When I got my L's, P's and P2's I remember booking fees for appointments and tests, plus fees when you passed, fees to be re-tested, etc etc. If one or two people complain about these fees/regulations/laws, nothing changes, but if 10 people do, then something may happen.
Reply

Kimmy

Posted by: Kimmy
Posted: 19th Nov 2011

Kimmy says: Having had my license now for over 35 years I see alot of young p platers driving quite wrecklessly. I feel that if the cost is so high for them to get a license they should throw in defensive driving, being there are more cars on the road these days. I have teenages going for their learners now and I will be paying for their defensive driving course as well at an additional cost for safety it will be worth it. Reply

Anonymous

Posted by: Anonymous
Posted: 17th Oct 2012

says: There is obviously a reason for these "astronomical" fees. I am a driver of more than 30 years, driving more than a 1000 kms a week and the antics and accidents that I see on the road are caused 99% by P plate drivers. When you get a few more Kms under your belt you'll appreciate the tightness of everything. Reply

shazza1988

Posted by: shazza1988
Posted: 21st Sep 2013

shazza1988 says: I believe that the P-plate laws are good although some need a little revision, I will admit. I am going to be a p-plate driver soon and I am glad that the rules are there to stop young people from doing silly things that get them into trouble. Reply

Hol94

Posted by: Hol94
Posted: 30th Jan 2014

Hol94 says: its a joke! and the police seem to target p platers as well!! Reply

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